Comments on: Flash Platform community elitism http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170 Flash Platform stuff from Jason Fincanon Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:53:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: cm http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170/comment-page-1#comment-44897 cm Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:07:06 +0000 http://flash.fincanon.com/?p=170#comment-44897 Some interesting points... kudos for vocalizing its very relevant to me as a "lowly" :P As for the "elites"... I really don't think a negative impression should be brought around them. They are great leaders and have helped inspire us all... but its crucial they realize what the blog author noted: Their positions can act as voice for the mass community that looks up to them... so please take this power and use it wisely :) I really think the main thing that should be taken away from this post is that the Flash community needs even more guidance and structuring. Establishing a community position and figurehead at Adobe would tremendously help this... and let us know Adobe really cares about open communities. A role that very similar to their evangelists but with a real authority would help bring clarity and bring solutions to the issues we and the platform face. Investing into the Flash community is even more important than investing into the technologies that drives it... for a human can deal with not having a specific language feature but cannot deal with not getting reaction/feedback from someone or something he/she loves. This is rather prominent currently in the Flash community where you have great designers discovering/developing new bugs/compilers/parsers/tools and input techniques with no roadmap or assurance that their works will not go to the wayside by Adobe later doing it themselves or not putting their findings into action. Another issue here is Adobe has to continually work on better understanding open... and how to properly leverage this open community the are so fond of marketing. In reality successful open source projects stem from highly distributed and chaotic systems (chaorder)... where groups collaborate to solve a common problem. Adobe is in a awkward spot in the sense that they are releasing products as "open source"... not knowing or even gauging for that matter what "the community's common problem" is. At the heart of the Flash Platform is the player... which we all know is never and really cannot be open source (security issues alone)... but they should REALLY consider somehow modularize the player to allow for (non-licensed/security) related parts to be actually fixed by the community (e.g. vector rendering, language features, performance)... all these things would greatly benefit from an open community getting involved and centralized around a common point. Either way my 2 cents... really glad all these types of posts are going around really questioning core issues that face our community... and to be honest if Adobe does not respond properly then they will see a large migration of their developers looking elsewhere... and as much as I LOOVE AS3 and company behind it... Direct2D/C# and Silverlight are really looking tempting :) Some interesting points… kudos for vocalizing its very relevant to me as a “lowly” :P

As for the “elites”… I really don’t think a negative impression should be brought around them. They are great leaders and have helped inspire us all… but its crucial they realize what the blog author noted: Their positions can act as voice for the mass community that looks up to them… so please take this power and use it wisely :)

I really think the main thing that should be taken away from this post is that the Flash community needs even more guidance and structuring. Establishing a community position and figurehead at Adobe would tremendously help this… and let us know Adobe really cares about open communities. A role that very similar to their evangelists but with a real authority would help bring clarity and bring solutions to the issues we and the platform face.

Investing into the Flash community is even more important than investing into the technologies that drives it… for a human can deal with not having a specific language feature but cannot deal with not getting reaction/feedback from someone or something he/she loves. This is rather prominent currently in the Flash community where you have great designers discovering/developing new bugs/compilers/parsers/tools and input techniques with no roadmap or assurance that their works will not go to the wayside by Adobe later doing it themselves or not putting their findings into action.

Another issue here is Adobe has to continually work on better understanding open… and how to properly leverage this open community the are so fond of marketing. In reality successful open source projects stem from highly distributed and chaotic systems (chaorder)… where groups collaborate to solve a common problem. Adobe is in a awkward spot in the sense that they are releasing products as “open source”… not knowing or even gauging for that matter what “the community’s common problem” is.

At the heart of the Flash Platform is the player… which we all know is never and really cannot be open source (security issues alone)… but they should REALLY consider somehow modularize the player to allow for (non-licensed/security) related parts to be actually fixed by the community (e.g. vector rendering, language features, performance)… all these things would greatly benefit from an open community getting involved and centralized around a common point.

Either way my 2 cents… really glad all these types of posts are going around really questioning core issues that face our community… and to be honest if Adobe does not respond properly then they will see a large migration of their developers looking elsewhere… and as much as I LOOVE AS3 and company behind it… Direct2D/C# and Silverlight are really looking tempting :)

]]> By: Jason http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170/comment-page-1#comment-44891 Jason Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:26:41 +0000 http://flash.fincanon.com/?p=170#comment-44891 Hey John, thanks for the read and comment. And thank you for the offer to help in any way you can. But I don't think it's so much about escalating or changing anything in the way Adobe is run. Instead, I think it's more about the people that are in these powerful positions of influence stepping back from themselves and remembering where they came from. Remembering that they too were once a part of the lower rungs of the community ladder. And remembering that the people that are there now look up to them on many different levels. It's a call out to the community and industry leaders to make sure they remember those things and to at least make an effort to stay humble. My note to Adobe was more of a question of if these things are considered when sending people out to represent the company. Also, there are two things that I think are very much worth repeating: 1. I am absolutely NOT talking about all evangelists or industry leaders. There are definitely some awesome people out there who are 100% on the opposite end of the spectrum from what I'm talking about. 2. I'm not only talking about evangelists... I'm talking about industry leaders as well. Hey John, thanks for the read and comment. And thank you for the offer to help in any way you can. But I don’t think it’s so much about escalating or changing anything in the way Adobe is run. Instead, I think it’s more about the people that are in these powerful positions of influence stepping back from themselves and remembering where they came from. Remembering that they too were once a part of the lower rungs of the community ladder. And remembering that the people that are there now look up to them on many different levels. It’s a call out to the community and industry leaders to make sure they remember those things and to at least make an effort to stay humble.

My note to Adobe was more of a question of if these things are considered when sending people out to represent the company.

Also, there are two things that I think are very much worth repeating:
1. I am absolutely NOT talking about all evangelists or industry leaders. There are definitely some awesome people out there who are 100% on the opposite end of the spectrum from what I’m talking about.
2. I’m not only talking about evangelists… I’m talking about industry leaders as well.

]]> By: John Dowdell http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170/comment-page-1#comment-44889 John Dowdell Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:38:52 +0000 http://flash.fincanon.com/?p=170#comment-44889 I'd agree that people tend to listen closest to those they know... face-to-face and social drives a lot of attention, that's a basic part of human nature. But something which can help the exposure and adoption of an idea is to make a good, concise explanation. Make it easy for the reader to take away your main point. (I haven't read many of this week's essays because they were too long and discursive, and because I knew others would be investing the extra time in reading them.) I gave your post a quick scan, then a full read, and just now a full re-read. I'm not sure what to escalate internally to other staffers. I got the sense there was something about "ignoring the vast majority", but I'm not sure how to turn that into something others here could act on. If you see a way I could help, you'll let me know, I hope...? tx, jd/adobe I’d agree that people tend to listen closest to those they know… face-to-face and social drives a lot of attention, that’s a basic part of human nature.

But something which can help the exposure and adoption of an idea is to make a good, concise explanation. Make it easy for the reader to take away your main point.

(I haven’t read many of this week’s essays because they were too long and discursive, and because I knew others would be investing the extra time in reading them.)

I gave your post a quick scan, then a full read, and just now a full re-read. I’m not sure what to escalate internally to other staffers. I got the sense there was something about “ignoring the vast majority”, but I’m not sure how to turn that into something others here could act on. If you see a way I could help, you’ll let me know, I hope…?

tx, jd/adobe

]]> By: Ryan Henson Creighton http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170/comment-page-1#comment-44888 Ryan Henson Creighton Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:33:20 +0000 http://flash.fincanon.com/?p=170#comment-44888 Hey Jason. i remember feeling the very same way you did two years ago. i left my job at a broadcaster, and the very next day i attended the Adobe AIR Tour. i was really unimpressed with the pompous attitudes of the evangelists, and couldn't beleive the degree of self-absorption they demonstrated. i was there to find out how i might use their new product to make money for my new business. Instead, i wound up sitting through an entire day-long wank about their adventures on the tour bus. You're a very nice fellow. i sometimes have trouble being nice. And especially then, i was feeling the pressure of becoming a free agent after leaving a cushy corporate job, and the AIR Tour was just a gigantic WOT. So i named names. http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2007/09/28/adobe-onair-tour-a-bus-load-of-jesuses/ But Lee is a peach. i wish other Adobe spokespeople were as down-to-Earth and accessible as that guy. (Keep in mind that i wrote this article two years ago. Everyone involved may have grown decent in the intervening years - including me, i hope.) Hey Jason. i remember feeling the very same way you did two years ago. i left my job at a broadcaster, and the very next day i attended the Adobe AIR Tour. i was really unimpressed with the pompous attitudes of the evangelists, and couldn’t beleive the degree of self-absorption they demonstrated. i was there to find out how i might use their new product to make money for my new business. Instead, i wound up sitting through an entire day-long wank about their adventures on the tour bus.

You’re a very nice fellow. i sometimes have trouble being nice. And especially then, i was feeling the pressure of becoming a free agent after leaving a cushy corporate job, and the AIR Tour was just a gigantic WOT.

So i named names.

http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2007/09/28/adobe-onair-tour-a-bus-load-of-jesuses/

But Lee is a peach. i wish other Adobe spokespeople were as down-to-Earth and accessible as that guy.

(Keep in mind that i wrote this article two years ago. Everyone involved may have grown decent in the intervening years – including me, i hope.)

]]> By: Josh Dura http://flash.fincanon.com/archives/170/comment-page-1#comment-44887 Josh Dura Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:12:21 +0000 http://flash.fincanon.com/?p=170#comment-44887 Fardeen: I might have worded that wrong (or it's intention might have been misread). This might be better... "Adobe listens to developers and tries their best to fix what is best for the Flash Platform". They can't fix every problem that every developer has. That would not only be impossible, but be bad for business. Fardeen: I might have worded that wrong (or it’s intention might have been misread). This might be better… “Adobe listens to developers and tries their best to fix what is best for the Flash Platform”. They can’t fix every problem that every developer has. That would not only be impossible, but be bad for business.

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